Ashley [00:00:05] Welcome to Making Conversation, a podcast where we celebrate making in all its forms from amazing stories of inspiring makers and people to behind the scene piece of building a startup in the tech and craft industry. I'm your host, Ashley Gosling. Today I'm talking with embroidery designer and soon to be author Melissa Galbraith of M Creative J. We've loved getting to know Melissa over the past year as she was an early maker on the making out. She's joined many of our online gatherings and shares her love of embroidery and passion for teaching others. Next spring, she's releasing her first book, How to Embroider Texture and Pattern toe designs that celebrate pattern color and pop up stitching. So make sure to keep an eye out for that. I love Melissa's down to earth approach, not only to embroidery and crafting in general, but also when it comes to building a business. I think you'll feel encouraged and inspired. You can find Melissa on the making app @melissa-mcreativej and on Instagram @mcreativej. And with that, here's Melissa. 

 

Melissa [00:01:09] The first thing that I think of is me dressed up in these fabric scraps from my mom's like fabric. Then standing in front of our fireplace. And I am dressed up like a cave woman. Like it's this, like purple and black spotted fleece that I have, like, wrapped around my waist and one on my arm and around my head. And I think I'm like, maybe five. Like, I just love getting into all of my mom's craft supplies and playing around. And we have this photo of and it's really funny. It hangs up on their wall and it makes me smile every time I see it. But my mom is like the biggest maker crafter, so or she does all the things and she growing up has like this giant room at our house that was always like, don't go in there. But if you do, we can do stuff, but you have to have supervision, you know. So we would get to like do all these really cool projects, like we did embroidery and quilting and bobbin lace and papier maché and like literally probably anything you could think of we did as a kid, and it was just so much fun. Like looking back, I am like, Wow, I was really fortunate to have a mom who wanted to do that with me because I as an adult, I'm finding that not everybody had parents that were super crafty and or like family members that wanted to do that with them. So I just like every time I come home, I'm always like so thankful my mom has this giant. So I am filled with just like magical supplies that we got to use as a kid. And my sisters and I got to make things together and learn these skills that like, as a kid, you just thinking, you think you're having fun, but as an adult, you're like, Oh, these are actually really practical skills that are helpful. Not only for like if I need to sew on a button to my shirt, but also to like, you know, feel like I can have fun and relax and don't have to, like, just be working all the time. Like, it's a nice creative outlet. My mom is like the best. Like, she had my sisters and I doing everything. I have two younger sisters, one of them as a year and a half younger than me, and one of them is eight years younger than me. So I think it was like an easy way for her to have us like have our hands on and get dirty without like getting into too much trouble. 

 

Ashley [00:03:24] So take me more through that journey from kind of this upbringing that was very incubated in craft and making and how that followed you as you went through kind of your formative years on into high school and college. 

 

Melissa [00:03:40] I guess like it was always a part of everything we did. So when I was in like elementary school, my mom always made me this really cool dresses and my sisters and I had like fun matching outfits. Like if I had an outfit and like Pink, my sister had like a similar one in purple and like, my mom made us backpacks in elementary school. And I so wish that I still had mine because it was this like cool jean patchwork but backpack that had our names embroidered on it. And like, I wore that thing to death. Like, it's gone now, but I so wish I still had it. But then even into like later elementary and middle school, we made Halloween costumes, we did fun projects together, we did Girl Scouts, and I was still very hands on with a lot of stuff in there. And then in high school, my mom and I actually designed all of my dresses for dances and things like that and made those together as well too. So I got to like really be hands on with that process and designing a lot of fun stuff that I could wear for special occasions and build those memories that way as well too. And then, I don't know, kind of in college I didn't really make a lot. It just didn't quite fit in. But after college and getting back into the workplace. So I got a degree in digital technology and culture. It's kind of like about how the web works and what people do online and like a little bit of graphic design and things. And I found that I was just sitting behind the computer all day, like every day, and I wasn't making anything really tangible. And so I wanted to give back to like hands on crafting. And after kind of dabbling in a couple of different like art forms, I fell back into embroidery and just really loved it because it was small, it was portable. You could it's almost like coloring with red and it was just so relaxing and I could do it anywhere, like while listening to a book or watching TV and just it was the one thing that really stuck and was so funny because when I was telling my mom after, I was like, really, really got back into it. But she kind of looked at me and goes, You hated that as a kid. I don't know why you'd want to do that now. And I was like, But it's so relaxing now. Like, I have more patience for it. So it's just I feel like making has always been a part of like. What I do and who I am, even if it's just been in little bits here and there and a bunch of different things. But it always is something that makes me happy and smile and like, think of my mom and like the cool things we got to do together. So. Yeah, I just love it. And that's also why I love sharing and like teaching and making that way as well too, and like passing those skills on to other people who want to learn. 

 

Ashley [00:06:21] At what point did it become your own. 

 

Melissa [00:06:24] Making has always been a part of my life, just here and there, bits and pieces. And I think once I really found a craft to focus on, so found hand embroidery and I kind of started getting back into it. I just found that it was something like really meditative and relaxing to do at the end of the day. And then I ended up getting a job in Seattle, so I would commute in and out on the bus. And so it was nice, something like relaxing to kind of like do on the way in. So I wasn't like super stressed about the hustle and bustle and then like on the way back home on the bus as well, just as a restful meditative like craft to kind of work on. It's kind of like taking a breath and letting it go and just being like, You're here, it's okay. Like it doesn't matter what else is going on. Your brain can noodle on it in the background if you want, but we're going to work with our hands and just like create something beautiful, play with like texture and pattern and color and like focus on that for a minute and not have to worry about anything else outside of what's in your hands right now. And it was just for me and brother just has like such a calming effect. It's like that nice way of doing that. And thankfully I would say like, my life is a little less stressful now, so I don't have to like rely on it as heavily. But there was a point where I was very much like, Oh man, I just, I need this right now. Like I need to like focus and sit down and like work on this because everything else is too much. Like, I feel like it's, I've always been there, which has been nice throughout my, like, I would say adult working life, which has been good cause obviously I would say like work always has its ups and downs, ebbs and flows, and like sometimes it's crazy chaotic and sometimes it's very slow. But embroidery is like a nice constant to kind of get you through all of that. 

 

Ashley [00:08:17] At what point did this become something that wasn't just your own, but something that you wanted to share? 

 

Melissa [00:08:22] Yeah, that's a great question. So when I first got back into embroidery, I kind of like fell into like a small business and selling my craft because I lived in like a tiny 600 square foot apartment with my then my husband and boyfriend at the time. And we just like I made so many things. So we didn't have room for these things. And I was like, okay, I either need to sell these or give them away or do something or like find something else to do. And I had already fallen in love with embroidery, so there was like no way that I was just like not doing it anymore. And I also like, you know, when you make something, you have like an attachment too. It's kind of like, I don't just want to, like, give these away to people. Like, I put a lot of work into these. I want them to be appreciated. So I kind of ended up going to like farmers markets and like selling my embroideries. And I really like, I would say after maybe like a year and a half, two years just found that like I didn't love the act of like selling things to people. That was not my strong suit. I'm much more introverted and I just wasn't like. I also find that like fiber arts are not like as appreciated as an art form, as other arts are, which is also the struggle when you're trying to sell things to consumers. So I like being at these fairs, though I did find that a lot of people would be like, I want to learn how to do that. How do you do this? Oh, so-and-so could teach me how to do this. I could teach you how to do this. My mom taught me. I feel like I know enough now that I could share this with other people. So I had a really good friend who kind of was like, you know, just see if somebody in the area wants to, like, host a workshop for you. So I ended up finding a wonderful space and we hosted a couple of workshops and it was really fun. Like, I was of course, very, very nervous at the time because I hadn't like actually taught in-person, but it went really well. People were like so appreciative and happy to like make with their hands and learn a new skill and kind of dove into something. And from there, it just really took off because I found that I loved being able to share how to embroider with like other people who wanted to learn to give it a try. I loved seeing that like aha moment when something clicked in their face when they were like really excited about what they were making and just like it was such a joyful experience and I really loved that. So I would say it's been maybe like three or four years now since I taught my first workshop, and it's just so much fun. And I love like trying to come up with new designs for classes and like different skills that we can learn. But I think at the same time you also kind of learn like what you could actually fit in like a two hour time period and like what's really approachable and like all sorts of these like tricks and things you like think of along the way. Like, I ended up getting like a hoop stand that sits on the table to make it a little easier so I can, like, demonstrate. And then when the pandemic hit, we weren't doing anything in-person. And I actually pivoted to online classes. And so I had to kind of like then learn how to use like Zoom and teach that way. And I ended up being able to like hold my hoop standing in front of me and then like stitch like from the back to the front. So people could see that without having to like do all sorts of like camera adjustments and things. So like it was, it was challenging to do virtual, but in the end I was so, so glad we did it because it was a great way to connect, especially, um, and we're all stuck at home. So I feel like teaching is where I really found my passion and what I love to do with this craft. And also just, just like been an amazing way to connect with the maker community. 

 

Ashley [00:12:11] You have quite the brand. You walk me through what that was like building all of that. 

 

Melissa [00:12:16] Well, when I kind of really went headlong into embroidery and decided I was going to do this as a business, the first thing I was like, Okay, well, I need a name. Like, I just have to figure out what I'm going to name this thing. And there was kind of like a joke that I think my husband started that it's like creative is your middle name. So that's where I am Creative J came from because my last name used to be a jay before I got married, so it was like a nice sandwich in between there. And I was like, okay, this is like an all encompassing name that like, forever, like it would be great for anything. Like if I, you know, say I wanted to change what I do, then I would still kind of like fall into that, like. Brand, which is nice and it's not like specific to embroidery, which is kind of helpful because and you can add to it if you wanted to. So I had a name and then I was like, All right, well, I kind of had to figure it out. Like, I kind of like look to other brands to see like what they were doing for like branding and building up their brand and like tried to add some of those pieces to things that I was doing at like farmers markets and other stuff. So like I have an Instagram, I have a website. I actually started out with Etsy first and I still have an Etsy because it was like a nice way to like dabble into figuring out how to sell online without like having a background in that, which is nice. I feel like a lot of things when you start a small business, it's like you really. Kind of just have to figure out what works for you and go from there. Like it's a lot of trial and error and sometimes it's like very expensive and sometimes it's just like, okay, well, I just don't need to do that again. Like, I learned my lesson and like I moved on or like this was an amazing experience. I should do it again. I feel like it's hard as an introvert to be like, I just, like, went out and tried these things and like, did it, but like, even so, like, you have to be a little more like willing to take risks as a small business and see, you know, it's like, I don't want to say you have to be extroverted, but you have to like just be willing to like go for it and see if it works out. So that's like I like I did some farmers markets for a while and found that like it wasn't quite my target audience, you know, like I found that people were really coming for the fruits and vegetables and flowers in the morning and they're not really there to buy art or craft kits. So then I like looked for other like craft shows in my area. So we have like thankfully Seattle has like an abundance of craft fairs and like small art shows and things like that, which is so amazing and wonderful that the community can support it. And there's so many like awesome options for makers like myself. So I ended up kind of dabbling in a couple of markets, like seeing what kind of worked and then being like, okay, this one was a great one and I learned from it and like, okay, maybe next time I need to try X, Y and Z to like see if this one will work better. But you just kind of like, see how that goes. And then I found that like a lot of markets, like you make connections and like that lead to something else and something different. So that's actually how I ended up finding the first place to teach at was I met them at a renegade craft fair in Seattle and she had stopped by and been like, Oh, like your stuff is really cool. Do you teach? And I was like, you know, I haven't, but it's something I'm like kind of interested in. So I made that connection that way and we ended up doing workshops there. And like after teaching with that space for a little while, I kind of learned like how to like set up a class and the materials I need and then like felt like I could then approach other spaces to teach as well too. And so then I have like looked up other craft spaces in the Seattle area and kind of reached out and was like, Hey, would you be interested in having me teach a embroidery class with you? And like some of those connections worked out really well and some of them didn't, and you just kind of learn. And then from there, I've just really built some really like amazing friendships and like places I get to craft with. And I think I do anywhere from like 1 to 4 workshops a week now, which is really fun. And yeah, we just get to do all sorts of fun things together. And another thing about small businesses like there's so many, everyone thinks like when you run a small business, you just get to make things all the time. But I feel like that's a very small portion of what you do. Like I, you know, like work on the website, do newsletters, social media, like you are basically a content creator at this point. Like I have to like build inventory and like buy things for like kids and stuff and then like put all my kids together and like all these things that you don't like, think about that actually take up like a ridiculous amount of time. So even though I like get to do this full time now, I would say like it's I stitch probably like only in the morning or like late at night, like after I'm done with all my other work stuff. 

 

Ashley [00:17:18] We believe that the simple act of making can transform your life and in turn change our world. This is why making exists. It all starts with inspiration. We are inspired by people, by places, by experiences. A beautiful photo, a soft wall, a kind heart. These are the things that motivate us to make. Making us here to disrupt systems. Systems of oppression. Systems that only benefit certain groups of people. And systems that extract. We are here to challenge the narrative of profit over people. We believe a company can be founded for the purpose of good and change the world for better, while also creating opportunity at scale. Makers are tired of the monolith. The few companies that comprise our only choices of how we can act, how he transact, and how we learn. Makers are ready for a better alternative, and that is what we are building. Becoming a break collective member helps us accomplish this. Visit makingzine.com To learn more. 

 

Melissa [00:18:28] We think that making has kind of found that nice, sweet spot where it's like you just get to share what you love and like talk about cool things and like build a community. And it's not like I have to create a video and like find the nice trending sounds that go with it or like throw a link in there or like create a blog post. Like it's just like it takes you back to, I think the very like early stages of like Instagram when people could just like throw up a photo and be like, This is what I love, you know, like this is what I'm working on. And like start connections and conversations that way, which is, I think what we really need. Like I feel like people are sometimes so focused on like the actual, like making and finishing of a project or like whatever they're working on that they don't stop to like talk about it and like, you know, share that progress and like connect with other people who are maybe working on something similar or, you know, just like build that community. And so for me, it's like I love having those conversations and connections and I think that's what's most important. And what a lot of like technology and like all these different apps and things are missing, they're all trying to be like the next trending viral thing. And for me, I just wish we would like slow down a little bit and like take a step back and say, like, hey, let's just let's just talk, you know, like, share what you love. 

 

Ashley [00:19:54] You know, there's a lot of things that we're doing that are not normal for a tech company. And one of the things that we were talking about that we've somehow all adopted this pressure to post every day, to consistently update, create content and really centered around everything we're doing, thinking about like how we're going to share that or like how we're going to do this thing. Whereas app making, we really want people to focus on the craft itself, the joy of sharing that and remove the pressure. And there's a really interesting podcast that I had the team listen to because we there's a reason that we've been trained that way and we want to encourage metrics and like people coming to the app as like a celebration of what they're doing off the app as opposed to spending so much time on the app, you know, where it takes away from this thing that they're doing off. And it's a big reason why we introduced the teaching platform first, because we felt like that's a value add. You know, that's something that's adding to your experience as opposed to just taking away, you know. And so. Again, like we're so in the early beginning, about to launch the marketplace. It's not a pure social network. It's not a pure teaching platform. It's not a pure marketplace. All these things kind of come together to create a like, beautiful experience of discovery that if you're a maker, whatever you're looking for around, whatever craft you're into, you're going to find the support or the connection or the ability to buy or learn in this place that feels expansive as opposed to extracting. I mean, how many times have we sat there looking, I'll be having fun for like something inspiring or something, or go down the rabbit hole, finding supplies and realize, Oh, we're out of time. We don't have time to make right now. 

 

Melissa [00:21:57] Yes. Oh, yes. And I feel like it's also a nice breath of fresh air, because a lot of times, like with social media, it's always like, what's the next thing? What is this person doing? And then gives you like a little bit of FOMO, to be honest. Like you're kind of like in a little bit of anxiety. And I feel like people are just like, it's a little bit of competition there, you know? And like, you're always trying to be like, How do I get more followers? How do I get more people to engage? How do I get more views? And really, it takes away from like the act of like making something, sharing something really cool that you're, like, passionate and proud of and just like want to put out there. 

 

Ashley [00:22:34] What is it that appeals to you about what we're building at making that is different than Etsy? I mean, obviously I know like how we're building a different than Etsy. I want to hear more about how we can support you really, you know, because that's where we're building. This is to give maker sellers another avenue that's a better alternative to what exists out there today. 

 

Melissa [00:22:56] Yeah, I mean, I look at Etsy kind of like a search engine at this point. Like I don't drive traffic to it, but it's a place people go to to look up for things. And if they find me and want to buy things, that's that's amazing. That's like in a way, I pay fees on there. That's why I have a storefront, because sometimes people are like, I want handmade. I go to Etsy, that's the only place I'm going to go. But then I can introduce them to my brand and take them back to my website hopefully, and then be like, This is who I am. You can learn more about me here. You can like read my blog, you can like check out all sorts of other cool things I have on here. But at the same time, like it's very cluttered, it's very like intense. You have to learn all these different systems and just like there's a lot going on there, there's a lot of noise. And the reason I was really attracted to making is because it's like a little bit of like a quieter, calmer space. It's like less like in your face, less like ads, less all sorts of stuff. It's more like true to the craft and like showing the process of like what people are working on, what they're passionate about. They aren't all these like highly staged photos. It's like just like, you know, this is what I'm working on. It's on my lap right now. Here's my cat. Like we're having a good time, you know? It's, like, very real. And that's kind of what I love about it. I just feel like Etsy, social media, everything is so, like, highly polished at this point that, like, you just don't it doesn't feel as attainable. And I feel like with the making app, you get like a real slice of life and that's what you want. Like you want to feel like, Oh, they're working on that. And that looks like something I could do like that. That looks like myself, you know, like I love to cozy up and work on a project as well too. And I just feel like having those like extensions with them. They're like, you know, somebody is working on this pattern and you're like, they're like, Oh, well, I actually designed this pattern and you could find it in the shop. Like, that will be so freaking cool because then you get to really talk with a designer, have like a stronger connection and conversation and like see them working on it. You know, you don't just get all these like, you know, like flat, like super nice photos of like, you know, this is what I design. Do you get like, it's more intimate, you know. 

 

Ashley [00:25:14] Really? We built this to try and meet designers, sellers, makers, where they're at. And and that's a few different places. There's people that have built a brand, have their own site, like are able to drive enough traffic to their site that they're less reliant on things like Etsy and even eBay. But then there's people that that feels like the biggest mountain to climb. Or, you know, you were talking about all these different parts of your business that you do like and how stitching is just like one part of it. And part of the vision was. For those people that want less to do, like funneling traffic to their platform and want to focus more on just like having a well-oiled machine that they can sell on and connect with. People can do that. And I think the other side of it is. Not just having to only sell goods, whether they're digital or physical, like being able to say, okay, well, there's other ways to diversify your income. Like, you can teach classes and there's a fun product category that we created called Services and that'll be launching when we launched the marketplace. And that's like, maybe you don't teach a class. Maybe you don't have a physical good to teach. Maybe you have both. But what if there was a way to kind of monetize your skill? It's really cool to see you on the app early, which I'm super grateful for, by the way, because all of our kind of early people, I mean, they really see the sort of like gritty side of like building a company, but it feels really supportive and it'll get better and better over time for sure. 

 

Melissa [00:27:04] Oh yeah. I mean, I feel like the early adopters you get are the people that are the most passionate and don't really care if it's not like 100% polished. They're like, they're because they love the idea and believe in the vision and want to like they know it'll get better. Like they know that like you're still working things out, but they're like ready to jump on board anyway. Earlier this summer, I hosted a craft camp with my friend. It was like an in-person event and you guys kindly sponsored something. But we like, I was so nervous. We're like, Oh my gosh. Like, it's not perfect. It's not like exactly what we wanted, but like we went ahead with it anyway. And the feedback from everybody was like, Oh my gosh, this was amazing. We want to come back next year. Like, we were like day two and people are already talking about next year, you know? So it was like you get those early adopters that people are so passionate about, like what you're doing, what you're into, like what you love and like that's how you build your foundation and like grow from there. So I definitely see like what you guys are trying to build and what you want to build and like of it, you know? 

 

Ashley [00:28:08] Yes, everything you just said and this is one of the struggles of having a brand that's existed for seven plus years. There's like this certain expectation of finished product, but also people are so used to Instagram like y'all do remember what Instagram was when it first started? Like, I was on there like the first month and it was fast forward, you know, God, 15 years or whatever, how long or 13 years. It is what it is today because of all that time. And so we we have we have like our timelines like this, like we got to reach that level like sooner. But we're getting there and I'm so excited completely switching gears. What is your mom? Think about everything that you've done. Like when she looks at you now and. Tell me a little bit about that. 

 

Melissa [00:28:56] She she's so excited. Like, you could just see her face light up and she's like, so, like, oh, my gosh, this is so cool, you know, because, like, my mom has always been like a, I would say, like a hobbyist maker. Like she has like all the giants I know and all the really cool things. But she always just did it for her, like family and friends and like for the passion of making it. And I think, you know, when I first told her I wanted to do this as a small business, she was kind of like, Oh, really, you're going to do that? Like, I don't know if you're going to make money, you know, like that that doesn't like, you know, I think that was just like a switch that had to happen in your head. I think for a lot of people, you know, most people are like, oh, you you craft. That's what you do, you know? But like, I think over the years, I've really been able to, like, build this up and like do really cool projects and like make really cool connections. And I think you can just see like both my parents, I face light up, they're so proud of me and happy and it just like it's very exciting to see that, especially so both my parents have like a chemical engineer background. They're very like math and science oriented. And I was like the arts child, like my other two sisters are also very like math and science. So it's like I'm kind of the odd one out and they're like, it's just exciting to see. Like, they still recognize and like, appreciate, like the time and energy and passion I have for this, even though if it's not like. Exactly what they really thought it would be, you know? And I think with everybody, it's like a journey and you're not 100% where you're going to end up. And sometimes, you know, you got to, like, figure it out. But it's been really exciting. And I think the thing my mom is most excited about is so earlier this year I wrote a book and turned it into the publisher in July. So they'll be out in the spring of 2023. And my mom, like every time I talk to her, is like, So have you heard anything about your book? When is it coming out? Like, I need a copy, so it's really cute. 

 

Ashley [00:30:52] Okay, well, this is a perfect segue way. How much can you share about your book? 

 

Melissa [00:30:55] Yeah, so I don't have, like, as many details as I would love to be able to share, but I can say it is a like, landscape inspired book that will have around 20 patterns in it that kind of range from like desert to mountains to beach and like all sorts of fun stuff. And you get to really play around with like a bunch of different stitches and create texture. I use a lot of different fun fabrics in there and just really it's like a. Celebration of like 3D stitching and like, nature. And I loved making it so much. It was so much fun. And I like it's actually on my wall over here, like all the pieces I did for it. So it, like, I just, I want to be able to share them so much and I just have to wait. 

 

Ashley [00:31:43] I know. And the publishing cycle is so long. I know about this. By the time we would release the magazine, we'd already be working like over a year ahead. And I know all the designers would be like, yes, after we all that time, which I know is really hard. 

 

Melissa [00:31:59] Yeah. And it's like I think when you're so in it though too, you're just kind of like, okay, this is like your heads down. This is that I want to like share it because I'm like in it like up to my eyeballs and then like once you like send it off to the publisher and like, you know, you're kind of hanging out. You're like, okay, like I did that thing. Like it's, it's hanging out there now. But I think once, like, I actually get to see like the book laid out and it put together and things like that, it'll feel more real because right now it's just kind of like this really cool project that I got to work on that basically lives and hopes and hangs up on my wall. But I think once I like actually see it look like a book, then I'll be like, Oh yeah, I did do a book thing. It's like the whole process of writing a book is a lot because it was like, I want to say like six or seven months of me, like pitching and finding a publisher that actually wanted to say yes before I even got to the book portion. And then you're like, heads down in the book portion for like, I think it was like four or five months and then like you just kind of wait after that. So there's like all this work and then it's like, okay, just hang out. 

 

Ashley [00:33:01] I'd love to hear a little bit more about that process for you, like the pitching coming up with an idea. Just walk me through that journey just a little bit, just to give people an idea. 

 

Melissa [00:33:12] Yeah, I'd be happy to. I mean, I feel like the publishing world is like a mystical, magical place that a lot of people don't really know about. And breaking into it is actually really hard. You have to, like, find the right people. But I would say that like embroidery and craft books have been like, you know, popping up left and right. It feels like everybody on Instagram is like writing a book these days. And I was like, you know, and I had sort of you'll be like, Why don't you just write a book? And I was like, Oh, yeah, I'll just write a book. You know, like, you can just, like, do that. But it's like finding it took me a while to, like, actually figure out, like, what I wanted to write about, what, like I was really passionate about. And then it's really a lot of research, you know, like you have to figure out, like, is your niche like something that's already been written about, something that's already really been like explored? Or can you add to that like your voice to that? And when I was originally thinking about what I want to write a book, I had originally focused on like desert landscapes because like the desert, just my happy place I grew up in like the desert of Washington. So it's just, it was an extension of that. And then so like I kind of figured out my idea, did a lot of research on like what's in the embroidery field and different publishers and things like that. And so I had like this giant spreadsheet of like different publishers and the books they had. And like you basically send them like pitch letters that you're like, Hey, this is who I am. This is what I want to write about. Like, this is why you should want to publish my book and then you kind of give them some of the research you've done your like, this is why my book will stand out in this crowd. This is like what I want to talk about and you can give them some examples or show them some like comparable titles, but share like why yours would be different and all sorts of things. I mean, I didn't like send out pitches every week. It was like kind of a process where you kind of have to like for me fit it in between everything else. And that's why it took I want to say like seven months where you're kind of like slowly sending this out and like pretty much just trying to figure out who the editor or the publisher is at different places and like emailing them. And then you just kind of like wait and see like, Oh, is anybody going to buy it? Am I really going to hear back? And maybe like 80% of the time you hear nothing and you're like, okay, well, maybe they got it, maybe they didn't. And then like occasionally her back and you're like, Oh yeah, well, we'll pass this on to so-and-so. Or like, you know, this isn't quite the right fit for us at this time. And I had a couple conversations with publishers that were like, Oh yeah, we'll pass this on to like the pitch meeting. And then you just hear nothing. But thankfully, when I was on vacation in January, I had a publisher emailed me back and was like, Actually, this is really cool. Like, we do want to do this. And like I was like emailing her, I was hanging out by the pool and I was like, Yeah. So this is kind of like what I'm thinking. And she was like, we had kind of decided that like, deserts maybe was a little too niche, so we expanded it to like broader landscapes. And I was able to like show some of like my previous work that I'd done that actually tied into that nicely to say like, Hey, I actually can do this. Like, here's some proof that you can show to like the people who need to say yes to this book. And then from there it's kind of like a little bit of like negotiation and being like, hey, this is like, you know, like what I can do for the book or like, I would need to. Help with X, Y and Z. So I ended up taking all the photos for my book and like kind of deciding like what actually goes into it, like the layout and like the number of stitches you use and all the patterns and everything. But if you need like more guidance or like somebody to help with those kinds of things, then you can negotiate that in your contract basically, and like what you would get us like in advance versus like royalties and different things. And if you have like an agent or like a somebody, to look that over like that would be helpful. I did not go the agent route because I didn't want to like a figure out how to find an agent and be like basically give them a portion of my royalties because they would get that in perpetuity. So I kind of just like figured it out and went with it and like based it on like think, well, I have other friends who have like written books or like done stuff size at least be able to get like a little bit of a temperature check from them based on like what they were willing to share and go from there. And then once we basically said, yes, I was like, all right. And then like just hit the ground running. A lot of the, I would say like pieces from my book. So even while I was like pitching my book idea, like I was still working on the book, working on like patterns and different things because I was like, even if some I don't get it. Yes, I'll still have like all these really cool desert patterns that I could use for something else, you know? So it wouldn't be a loss. It would still be something that I could, like, use and share and like, I'm proud of these work, so I can, like, create them and enjoy that process. And then when we kind of pivoted that idea of what was in the book, then I was still able to use some of those designs and then obviously like figure out what else was going on and then finding that right balance of like, you know, is it too mountain heavy? Is it too desert heavy? Do I need to add some more like beaches or waterways? Do I need to have like, you know, some fun meadows in between or like, you know, not every piece can have like a moon or clouds in it, you know? So, like finding that like right balance there too, and like what inspires you and what you can, like, draw from? I had some really cool opportunities come my way, but I have not been one of those makers who was like, you know, found on Instagram and got a book deal. Like, that's very rare. I would like it might seem common on Instagram, but it is not the same with like a lot of other projects or things. You just have to put yourself out there and see like that's how I like got to be on some other podcast, got to like work on really cool collaborations just by saying like, Hey, I'm interested. Like if you want to do something, let me know. And like following up, you know, because sometimes people just don't know you're there. You kind of build it as you go and figure out what works. But also you have to know like what works for you. And sometimes some things your audience wants or like is really popular, might not be what's best for you and trying to figure that out. And you don't always have to hop on the latest trend or something like that. You just kind of stick to what resonates with you and your brand and how you can like add to and like stand out in a positive way. You know, you don't always have to be trendy. You can just you want people to like know the real, authentic you. 

 

Ashley [00:39:33] I think everyone builds companies and businesses for different reasons, you know, but at the end of the day, what's going to give me longevity? Like in what I'm doing, the reason that I've been able to do making, you know, for seven years and will be able to do it for the next ten, 15 years. Is staying true to my authentic self and. I think we need to remind ourselves that. We don't have to be all the things for all the people. And there's this idea that's been heavily forced on us that. There have to be these unicorns, which they call it, and like in tech, like there have to be these like single monopolies almost that exist that usurp all the. All of the energy, all of the light, everything. And that's just not the way it is. It's like, not how we've existed for time immemorial. There can be many things and there's actually enough people, there's enough infrastructure, there's enough money out there to support all the things and all the ways. We don't need just one, you know, and we don't need this consolidation of power or money or influence. What we really need is. For people to have space to share and connect and. What you're doing is going to meet so many people where they're at and it's going to either be on one of the parts of their timeline of their creative journey, or it's going to be totally like the niche of embroidery that they want. And so I love that you came to that same conclusion because I think there is so much pressure today to be something else other than not just yourself, but more. And being just yourself is enough. 

 

Melissa [00:41:24] It is, yeah. I feel like a lot of especially in the last couple of years within the making community, the phrase like community over competition has been really strong since I've been on like social media and started doing hand embroidery. I would say that there have been so many people that have also joined and started doing embroidery because they fell in love with it, found it approachable, wanted to like create kits and patterns. I mean, I could look at that and say like, Oh my gosh, they're taking up space that I could be in. And, like, I need to, like, you know, be better than them. Or I can just be like, oh my gosh, you are making amazing things like, this is so cool. And I want to like, you know, have a conversation with you about this and feel inspired and not feel like you are my competition. And I think that has been one of the things for me within like especially the past year has really helped me when I've been on social to be like, you know, this is fun. Like this is a fun place. And it's not like me constantly being like, these are all my competitors. These are like just other small business makers and people that are just passionate about what they do and like, you want to, like, uplift them. 

 

Ashley [00:42:36] The biggest of thanks to everyone involved in this week's episode. I hope you'll join me each week as we talk and learn from more fascinating makers for podcast notes and transcriptions. Visit our blog at makingzine.com. Have a wonderful week.